This blog is created for Poetry classes at PCU. It is meant to give a room for students to give comments, opinions, or post things they think interesting. Hope it can help to make reading poetry enjoyable and worth doing.
Monday, September 26, 2011
Posting your questions and opinions here
Dear students,
you may post your questions or/and answers to the questions of your friends about the last three poems (by Blake, Frost, and Dickinson) here. After you type your questions/comments, click on "Name/URL," then "Publish." Thank you.
(B.SARAH'S CLASS) As undesirable and fearful as physical death can be, there is something worse, which is spiritual death, to be "dead in trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1). What is this spiritual death? Like physical death, it is a separation, though not of body and spirit but of the soul from God because of sin. It is a problem that all responsible human beings face because "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). Yet, there is something even still worse, and that is the fact that if something is not done about this condition of spiritual death, it will result in eternal death--separation from God in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. Thus, while we certainly need to make preparations for the time of physical death, we need to be more concerned about the problem of spiritual death. Physical death ends only this life, but spiritual death has consequences for all eternity.
@Victor: Your comment is good, though of religious nature. Actually, I hope for a more 'secular' reading in the sense how spiritual death is related to our daily life, its effects to the person himself/herself and people around him/her. Thanks anyway for your comment.
C.A.ODILIA W / 11409045 I want 2 ask to Jessica & eiren group that talk about analysis 'I Could not Stop for Death'. One of you said that actually she's not afraid in facing the death (calmly accepted the death/ 'He kindly...'. Do you think that the author really not afraid toward the death, since most people do often pretend to themselves (such as pretend to be brave when they are scare, happy when they're sad)? what do you think? Please explain..thankz a lot...^^
I want to ask Jessica, Eirene, and Fenny's group about their analysis about 'Because I Could Not Stop for Death'. Is there any general message/purpose from the author to the readers in this poem? Thank you =)
I have a question for Jessica's group: Throughout the stanzas, we discover that Death and the speaker do not talk to each other. How would you interpret the meaning of silence here in relation to the message of this poem?
I want to ask to Jessica, Fenny, and Eirene's group about the poem. In this poem, it shows that the speaker doesn't afraid of Death, then why she said that she could not stop for death?
I think the spiritual death worse than the physical death. if the physical is dead, that's all, that person moves to the other life or afterlife, yet, if our spiritual is dead, the person just like a an animal. Living in this world but there's nothing inside his/her physical and it gives sense that s/he just lives concerning with the physical needs such as: eating, taking rest and so on, anything that make his/her physical needs fullfilled. While, what makes human different with the other living creature is human have something that is called as spiritual. Also, life will be just about his/her selves,doing everything what s/he wants, regardless anyone around him/her. Just as what a murderer does, s/he kills somebody without any compassion toward his/her victim, a son killed his father. There's no love and affection anymore. Having relationship with someone just for lust, not love just as the animal. It can be dangerous for people around his/her, there is a "zombie" living among them. Lively outside, but deadly inside.
Eirene.D (11409049) I will take the Odi's question, in this poem, the speaker is not afraid at all. since she feels that death is something natural. If we see the third and fourth stanza, the speaker wants to describe the life stages of human being to that so called as death. In the third stanza, the speaker said about the landscapes which she passed together with death in the carriage, these landscape actually refer to the stages of life from childhood, adulthood until the end of life. Meanwhile, in the fourth stanza is mainly about the end of her journey to the resting place. So, she emphasizes that death seems to be the part of our life stages and there's nothing to worry about death. Also, in the last stanza in the first and second line, the speaker says that "since 'tis centuries, but each feels shorter than a day" which give the meaning of the speaker has actually been passed away century ago, but the very first day when she met her death feels like just yesterday(feels shorter than a day). This indicates that the speaker takes the day when she passed away as something that joyful, so she remembers of that day. It is the same with us, when we have a happy memory about something, we love to remember it on and on. Then, we also tend to feel the thing(joyful experience) has just happened yesterday while it is actually years ago. So, Odi, the speaker of this poem does not feel afraid even pretend to do so. Thank you :D
I will answer Devi’s question. The general message or purpose of the writer to the readers in “Because I Could Not Stop for Death” is to remind us that life in this world is very short. Emily Dickinson encourages us to enjoy and don't waste the time we have, because we will never know when death comes to pick us up. So, don't spend our time with useless things, but use the time wisely. Moreover, Dickinson wants to convey that after the death in the world, we will get a new life in another world =)
I have some questions to the presenter of "A Poison Tree" by William Blake: 1. How does the poem "A Poison Tree" by William Blake support or negate that anger is an emotion that wells up inside until you feel you must spew it out?
2. Does the poem "A Poison Tree" by William Blake suggest that people tend to want to nourish their hatred rather than overcome it?
I think spiritual death is worse than physical death because the person actually are not really 'alive'. They more like a robot. They can do anything but they don't have any feelings. Their mind can't differentiate between good and bad. As we know spiritual plays important role in our life, because our spiritual will control everything like the way of thinking and our attitude. I will answer Felicia's question, In this poem, the speaker considered 'Death' as her 'suitor' so when Death picks her up the speaker really enjoy her togetherness with Death because it means she will 'marry' with him so it makes her could not stop for death because she already fallen in love with Death.
We will answer Della’s question. In this poem, the author does not speak directly to the death, but she feels herself as if speaking to him, and after that she interprets it. So in conclusion, there is no direct communication between the author and death =)
I have a question for Jessica's group: From the comment you have given to Odi's question, I want to add something. Is the poem really express that the speaker does not afraid of death or the speaker pretends that she does not afraid of it? Because for me, from the title of this poem the speaker looks like powerless/unable to run from death. Through the human life's stages we know that day by day we are getting older. We have experienced happy and sad time together in our lives and it is true that we cannot stop for death. So, how can your group relate the title of this poem with the speaker's feeling in this poem? Thank you ^^
I try to answer Pak Satya's question about spiritual and physical death. Spiritual death is worse than physical death because once your spirit die, you are not more than things(chairs, tables, etc.) which have no spirit. Or I can say in other words you like zombies. But if you die physically your spirit can still live in this world. The spirit that every people has can still alive since it had influenced a lot of people. For example like Marthin Luther King Jr. , even though we cannot feel him physically but the spirit is still alive especially for American. For me the most important thing for human being to live is spirit not physic.
When I see birches bend to left and right Across the line of straighter darker trees, I like to think some boy's been swinging them. But swinging doesn't bend them down to stay.
ANALYSIS: Frost opens the poem with an image of the birches bent "left and right / across the lines of straighter darker trees" (lines 1-2) and quickly puts forth one explanation for how they got that way(bend left and right): a boy had been swinging on them. Right away, however, he admits this is false, saying in line 4, "But swinging doesn't bend them down to stay."
LINE 5-11
Ice-storms do that. Often you must have seen them Loaded with ice a sunny winter morning After a rain. They click upon themselves As the breeze rises, and turn many-colored As the stir cracks and crazes their enamel. Soon the sun’s warmth makes them shed crystal shells Shattering and avalanching on the snow-crust-
ANALYSIS: The first break in the poem occurs in line 5 when Frost admits that it is ice storms, not boys, who bend down the birch trees. The next few lines are a beautiful description of birch trees, their branches frozen and encrusted with ice in the morning after an ice storm. However, their beauty is only short-lived; soon, in line 9, the sun "cracks and crazes their enamel"—the ice, which breaks and falls into the snow. This is the first hint of destruction in the poem (other than the birches themselves).
LINE 12-20
Such heaps of broken glass to sweep away You’d think the inner dome of heaven had fallen. They are dragged to the withered bracken by the load, And they seem not to break; though once thy are bowed So low for long, they never right themselves: You may see their trunks arching in the woods Years afterwards, trailing their leaves on the ground Like girls on hands and knees that throw their hair Before them over their heads to dry in the sun. But as I was going to say when Truth broke in
ANALYSIS : In line 13 when he raises the symbolic level of the poem with the sentence: "You'd think the inner dome of heaven had fallen." This line not only anticipates the last lines of the poem, but it also signals the beginning of a retreat from reality.
With all her matter-of-fact about the ice-storm I should prefer to have some boy bend them As he went out and in to fetch the cows- Some boy too far from town to learn baseball, Whose only play was what he found himself, Summer or winter, and could play alone.
ANALYSIS: Frost dismisses the ice storm as a cause of the birches' condition in favor of his original explanation that a boy had bent them—despite the fact that he knows that a boy didn't do it.
Lines 28-32
One by one he subdued his father’s trees By riding them down and over and over again Until he took the stiffness out of them, And not one but hung limp, not one was left For him to conquer. He learned all there was To learn about launching out too soon
ANALYSIS: •The speaker imagines the boy going out into his father's land. •The boy "rides" the birch trees down, meaning that the boy climbs to the top of them until his weight bends the trees down to the ground. •One way to interpret line 32 is to see it as an example of man conquering nature.
Lines 32- 35
He learned all there was To learn about launching out too soon And so not carrying the tree away Clear to the ground.
ANALYSIS: •The boy starts to get better about swinging the trees over time. •If he did jump out too soon, the tree would be damaged.
So, Monica, actually the title of this poem conveys the meaning that we can not stop for death, there is still a life after the death which is eternal one. Telling about the title, I think we better relate it with the lines and the whole meaning of the poem. That is right that the speaker does not have the power over the death as in the second stanza, line 1 "we slowly drove-he knew no haste". This line implies that the one who has the power is death while the speaker enjoys the every moment together with death, that is why the speaker puts the word " we". Moreover, the whole meaning of this poem actually wants to tell the joy being with death, for me, if the speaker is afraid of death she would not tell about the day when she firstly met death, talking about her afterlife such as: the loneliness in the graveyard and so on. It is the same with us, if we are happy being together with someone, we love to tell the very day when we meet him/her. Besides, in the second line of the last stanza, she said that "since 'tis century, yet it feels shorter than a day", if we are afraid of something or in the bad moment, we feel it happens so long, otherwise when we are happy or in the joyful moment we feel that it happens shortly. The same thing as the speaker, she feels like it just happened while actually it has been hundred year ago. So, that is true the speaker does not have power over the death, yet it does not mean that she is afraid, she is kind of accepting it as the part of life which bring her into the afterlife. Thus "Could not stop here" has two meaning. First, the death could not stop as it does not "stop" in the very minute we died but it lasts until we meet the eternity and second, "I could not stop for death", the speaker could not stop thinking about death since she enjoys or loves it instead of trying to stop it from being happened because she is afraid. Thx :)
I want to ask victor's group; in your explanation in lines 5-11 analysis, in the last line" This is the first hint of destruction in the poem", and also I think this poem often emphasize on how the birches bent down. So do you think that "destruction" of the birches related to death in real life? How do you relate that?thx :D
He always kept his poise To the top branches, climbing carefully With the same pains you use to fill a cup Up to the brim, and even above the brim.
ANALYSIS: • Now we're getting some details of how the boy becomes better at swinging the trees. • He keeps "his poise," meaning he stays balanced and calm, sort of hovering up on a tree branch. The speaker compares it to filling a cup to the brim. If you are pouring liquid into a cup, you are so careful not to overflow the cup, so you add a small amount of the liquid at a time. Then you add just a teeny bit more and the liquid forms a dome just above the rim of the cup.
Lines 41-42
So was I once myself a swinger of birches. And so I dream of going back to be
ANALYSIS: • The speaker shifts gears from a young boy he imagines swinging on a birch tree, to himself as an older man. He wishes he were out there swinging trees like he was a boy again. • So all these details could be memories from his boyhood: conquering nature, girls sunning themselves, time alone to think about the natural world.
Lines 43-47
It's when I'm dreary of considerations, And life is too much like a pathless wood Where your face burns and tickles with the cobwebs Broken across it, and one eye is weeping From a twig's having lashed across it open.
ANALYSIS:
• The speaker wishes he could be a boy again when he's "dreary of considerations." • "Considerations" could mean thoughtful decision making – an important adult activity. • That's probably not what he's weary of, however. Instead, "considerations" might refer to the give and take of life. Older people have to give up things or pay for things that kids don't. This might be a way for the speaker to lament the fact that his life is now filled with responsibilities.
I'd like to get away from earth awhile And then come back to it and begin over.
ANALYSIS : • The speaker transitions to the idea that going back to his childhood is an escape. He wants to take a vacation from life. • Whether it's a vacation from adult life with responsibilities or a vacation from the world of the living, we don't know. • The idea to take away is that he wants a new beginning. He still enjoys life's pleasures, and he doesn't want to die. But he doesn't want to be where he is now.
Lines 50-53
May no fate willfully misunderstand me And half grant what I wish and snatch me away Not to return. Earth's the right place for love: I don't know where it's likely to go better.
ANALYSIS: • The speaker seems to make the following disclaimer: "If any deity, higher power, etc. heard me wish for a break from life, please don't take away my life without ensuring the safe return after an agreed upon time." • His reason is that he is a lover of life. Anyone who appreciates the sway of trees in the chilling wind loves life. • For the speaker, love is a worldly idea. • "It's" (meaning love) worldly to him, because the world is all he knows. • He recognizes that the world you know is better than an imagined one.
Lines 54-57
I'd like to go by climbing a birch tree, And climb black branches up a snow-white trunk Toward heaven, till the tree could bear no more, But dipped its top and set me down again.
ANALYSIS: • This appreciation of life doesn't mean he isn't curious. The speaker still wonders about the limits of life and tests out where life ends and heaven begins. • Line 54 has a funny wording that needs to be pointed out: "I'd like to go by…" Usually people talk like this about their own death: "I'd like to go in my sleep." So it seems like the speaker is saying that he'd like to go to heaven by climbing a tree. • However in line 56 he says "Towards heaven," so he doesn't actually want to get to heaven just yet.
Lines 58-59
That would be good both going and coming back. One could do worse than be a swinger of birches.
ANALYSIS: • He likes the idea of a vacation from the troubles of life, as long as it is only vacation and not a permanent situation. • The glimpse at the world from a new perspective would be rejuvenating. • He concludes, like he did in lines 52 and 53, that life's pleasures (like birch swinging) are enough to make life worth living.
The regenerative cycle of nature and love is reflected in Robert Frost's nature poem "Birches."
He says “So low for long, they never right themselves”. I think that he means that once you are down for so long there seems like there is no way out. You feel beaten and can’t lift yourself up, you can never right yourself.
He doesn’t want to believe that the storm hurt the trees, much like us. We never want to admit to ourselves that something that we love would try to hurt us. We always make up excuses to ourselves to make it seem like it is something that it’s not. It always hurts us more to know the truth. At the end he says that one could do worse than be a swinger of birches. So I guess he is saying that no matter how bad things seem to be they can always be worse. People will always have the capability to hurt us, but it is up to us as our own person, whether we let them destroy us or not. We are not like birch trees, we can stand up for ourselves against the biggest storm.
I want to ask to Victor’s group, why did Robert Frost choose the word "Birches" as the title? In addition, why did Frost who is an American poet but his work (and also in this poem) frequently employee settings from rural life in New England? Thank you =)
sorry, I forget to mention, Sir.^^ I wanted to ask Victor's group. Based on your presentation, you said if one of the theme in this poem is love. Why do you think so?because I think Robert Frost also portrayed the images of a child growing to adulthood through the symbolism of aging birch trees and also about life because the man also tried to escape the reality.thank you :)
-> Originally, this poem was called “Swinging Birches,” a title that perhaps provides a more accurate depiction of the subject. In writing this poem, Frost was inspired by his childhood experience with swinging on birches, which was a popular game for children in rural areas of New England during the time.
-> Frost uses New England as a recurring setting throughout his work. Although he spent his early life in California, Frost moved to the East Coast in his early teens and spent the majority of his adult life in Massachusetts and New Hampshire.I think almost of Frost's poems, solitary travelers appear frequently in Frost’s poems, and their attitudes toward their journeys and their surroundings highlight poetic and historical themes, including the figure of the wanderer and the changing social landscape of New England in the twentieth century. As in romanticism, a literary movement active in England from roughly 1750 to 1830, Frost’s poetry demonstrates great respect for the social outcast, or wanderer, who exists on the fringes of a community.
The poem pivots in line 24 as the poet imagines that, yes, the birches are bent from a boy swinging on them. The rhythm of the poem speeds up as Frost provides images of youth swinging on birches. Frost uses alliteration in line 42 to change the direction and mood of the poem once again as he reflects on what it would be like to be young again. The only way to do this, he claims, is through love. It is through love that even those who are bent can enjoy a renewal of their spirit, and can "climb black branches up a snow white trunk / Toward heaven, till the tree could bear no more" (56-57). He emphasizes the perfect rejuvenating power of love, represented by the birches, via meiosis in the last line: "Once could do worse than be a swinger of birches"
Yes of course, the "destruction" in this case, it can be related to death in real life..Why? there are two perception: 1. because "bent down" explores the realities of aging, if u are not young again, of course, your weight is so heavy, so it caused destruction to the branch of Briches tree. That's why, Frost said that the destruction is caused by the nature
There are two perception: 1. because "bent down" explores the realities of aging, if u are not young again, of course, you will be hunchbacked. (If you see the destruction of the birches as a human's cycle of life) 2. because "bent down" explores the realities of weight gained in human life. The weight of human itself caused the 'bent down'. That's why, Frost said that the destruction is caused by the nature
Perhaps my answer can clarify the previous one (answering EIRENE's question):
The birch trees could be representative of human lives. When we are young, we are tall, strong, and unbent, but as the years and storms go by, we become bent and tired by experience. Once we are bent, like the birch trees, we can't go back to where we used to be. We must bear the knowledge and experience gained in our lives- there's no turning back.
And what is Life? An hour-glass on the run, A mist retreating from the morning sun, A busy, bustling, still-repeated dream. Its length? A minute's pause, a moment's thought. And Happiness? A bubble on the stream, That in the act of seizing shrinks to nought.
And what is Hope? The puffing gale of morn, That of its charms divests the dewy lawn, And robs each flow'ret of its gem—and dies; A cobweb, hiding disappointment's thorn, Which stings more keenly through the thin disguise.
And what is Death? Is still the cause unfound? That dark mysterious name of horrid sound? A long and lingering sleep the weary crave. And Peace? Where can its happiness abound? Nowhere at all, save heaven and the grave.
Then what is Life? When stripped of its disguise, A thing to be desired it cannot be; Since everything that meets our foolish eyes Gives proof sufficient of its vanity. 'Tis but a trial all must undergo, To teach unthankful mortals how to prize That happiness vain man's denied to know, Until he's called to claim it in the skies.
If I can't do what I want to do then my job is to not do what I don't want to do It's not the same thing but it's the best I can do If I can't have what I want... then my job is to want what I've got and be satisfied that at least there is something more to want Since I can't go where I need to go... then I must... go where the signs point through always understanding parallel movement isn't lateral when I can't express what I really feel I practice feeling what I can express and none of it is equal I know but that's why mankind alone among the animals learns to cry
Lines 36-38: I don't think that the comparison in these lines is exact. I mean, climbing the tree can't be compared to filling a cup. Yes, 2 of them need prudential but 1 thing can't be same. It is pleasure. For the boy, although he need to be careful but there s pleasure for the boy (that's why the author dream back of going to be --> Lines 42. It is because there was pleasure). However, I don't think there is a pleasure although there is prudential in filling a cup.
Lines 48-49: The analysis is overall good but I think the "world of the living" is the "adult life with the responsibilities" itself if we see from the context which is the author is adult.
People are moving ever faster, More spin scorches my eyes. My value is in a state Of constant flux, Measured by the fleeting Glances of women. True solace remains Deeply veiled. I opt of Art, A hearty cauldron of Voodoo Stew.
58 comments:
Why is spiritual death worse than physical death?
(B.SARAH'S CLASS)
As undesirable and fearful as physical death can be, there is something worse, which is spiritual death, to be "dead in trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1). What is this spiritual death? Like physical death, it is a separation, though not of body and spirit but of the soul from God because of sin. It is a problem that all responsible human beings face because "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). Yet, there is something even still worse, and that is the fact that if something is not done about this condition of spiritual death, it will result in eternal death--separation from God in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. Thus, while we certainly need to make preparations for the time of physical death, we need to be more concerned about the problem of spiritual death. Physical death ends only this life, but spiritual death has consequences for all eternity.
@Victor: Your comment is good, though of religious nature. Actually, I hope for a more 'secular' reading in the sense how spiritual death is related to our daily life, its effects to the person himself/herself and people around him/her. Thanks anyway for your comment.
C.A.ODILIA W / 11409045
I want 2 ask to Jessica & eiren group that talk about analysis 'I Could not Stop for Death'. One of you said that actually she's not afraid in facing the death (calmly accepted the death/ 'He kindly...'. Do you think that the author really not afraid toward the death, since most people do often pretend to themselves (such as pretend to be brave when they are scare, happy when they're sad)? what do you think? Please explain..thankz a lot...^^
I want to ask Jessica, Eirene, and Fenny's group about their analysis about 'Because I Could Not Stop for Death'.
Is there any general message/purpose from the author to the readers in this poem?
Thank you =)
I have a question for Jessica's group:
Throughout the stanzas, we discover that Death and the speaker do not talk to each other. How would you interpret the meaning of silence here in relation to the message of this poem?
Thank you :)
I want to ask to Jessica, Fenny, and Eirene's group about the poem. In this poem, it shows that the speaker doesn't afraid of Death, then why she said that she could not stop for death?
I think the spiritual death worse than the physical death. if the physical is dead, that's all, that person moves to the other life or afterlife, yet, if our spiritual is dead, the person just like a an animal. Living in this world but there's nothing inside his/her physical and it gives sense that s/he just lives concerning with the physical needs such as: eating, taking rest and so on, anything that make his/her physical needs fullfilled. While, what makes human different with the other living creature is human have something that is called as spiritual. Also, life will be just about his/her selves,doing everything what s/he wants, regardless anyone around him/her. Just as what a murderer does, s/he kills somebody without any compassion toward his/her victim, a son killed his father. There's no love and affection anymore. Having relationship with someone just for lust, not love just as the animal. It can be dangerous for people around his/her, there is a "zombie" living among them. Lively outside, but deadly inside.
Eirene.D (11409049)
I will take the Odi's question, in this poem, the speaker is not afraid at all. since she feels that death is something natural. If we see the third and fourth stanza, the speaker wants to describe the life stages of human being to that so called as death. In the third stanza, the speaker said about the landscapes which she passed together with death in the carriage, these landscape actually refer to the stages of life from childhood, adulthood until the end of life. Meanwhile, in the fourth stanza is mainly about the end of her journey to the resting place. So, she emphasizes that death seems to be the part of our life stages and there's nothing to worry about death. Also, in the last stanza in the first and second line, the speaker says that "since 'tis centuries, but each feels shorter than a day" which give the meaning of the speaker has actually been passed away century ago, but the very first day when she met her death feels like just yesterday(feels shorter than a day). This indicates that the speaker takes the day when she passed away as something that joyful, so she remembers of that day. It is the same with us, when we have a happy memory about something, we love to remember it on and on. Then, we also tend to feel the thing(joyful experience) has just happened yesterday while it is actually years ago. So, Odi, the speaker of this poem does not feel afraid even pretend to do so.
Thank you :D
I will answer Devi’s question. The general message or purpose of the writer to the readers in “Because I Could Not Stop for Death” is to remind us that life in this world is very short. Emily Dickinson encourages us to enjoy and don't waste the time we have, because we will never know when death comes to pick us up. So, don't spend our time with useless things, but use the time wisely. Moreover, Dickinson wants to convey that after the death in the world, we will get a new life in another world =)
My Question to the presenter of 'The Road Not Taken' by Robert Frost:
1. What do you think the chances are that the speaker will get to come back and try the other path?
2. Do you think the speaker regrets his choice, or is happy about it? Why?
I have some questions to the presenter of "A Poison Tree" by William Blake:
1. How does the poem "A Poison Tree" by William Blake support or negate that anger is an emotion that wells up inside until you feel you must spew it out?
2. Does the poem "A Poison Tree" by William Blake suggest that people tend to want to nourish their hatred rather than overcome it?
Thank u So much..^^
GBU
I think spiritual death is worse than physical death because the person actually are not really 'alive'. They more like a robot. They can do anything but they don't have any feelings. Their mind can't differentiate between good and bad. As we know spiritual plays important role in our life, because our spiritual will control everything like the way of thinking and our attitude. I will answer Felicia's question, In this poem, the speaker considered 'Death' as her 'suitor' so when Death picks her up the speaker really enjoy her togetherness with Death because it means she will 'marry' with him so it makes her could not stop for death because she already fallen in love with Death.
We will answer Della’s question. In this poem, the author does not speak directly to the death, but she feels herself as if speaking to him, and after that she interprets it. So in conclusion, there is no direct communication between the author and death =)
Jessica (11409024)
Fenny (11409027)
Eirene (11409049)
I have a question for Jessica's group:
From the comment you have given to Odi's question, I want to add something. Is the poem really express that the speaker does not afraid of death or the speaker pretends that she does not afraid of it? Because for me, from the title of this poem the speaker looks like powerless/unable to run from death. Through the human life's stages we know that day by day we are getting older. We have experienced happy and sad time together in our lives and it is true that we cannot stop for death. So, how can your group relate the title of this poem with the speaker's feeling in this poem? Thank you ^^
I try to answer Pak Satya's question about spiritual and physical death. Spiritual death is worse than physical death because once your spirit die, you are not more than things(chairs, tables, etc.) which have no spirit. Or I can say in other words you like zombies. But if you die physically your spirit can still live in this world. The spirit that every people has can still alive since it had influenced a lot of people. For example like Marthin Luther King Jr. , even though we cannot feel him physically but the spirit is still alive especially for American. For me the most important thing for human being to live is spirit not physic.
Briches by Robert Frost
LINE 1-4
When I see birches bend to left and right
Across the line of straighter darker trees,
I like to think some boy's been swinging them.
But swinging doesn't bend them down to stay.
ANALYSIS:
Frost opens the poem with an image of the birches bent "left and right / across the lines of straighter darker trees" (lines 1-2) and quickly puts forth one explanation for how they got that way(bend left and right): a boy had been swinging on them. Right away, however, he admits this is false, saying in line 4, "But swinging doesn't bend them down to stay."
LINE 5-11
Ice-storms do that. Often you must have seen them
Loaded with ice a sunny winter morning
After a rain. They click upon themselves
As the breeze rises, and turn many-colored
As the stir cracks and crazes their enamel.
Soon the sun’s warmth makes them shed crystal shells
Shattering and avalanching on the snow-crust-
ANALYSIS:
The first break in the poem occurs in line 5 when Frost admits that it is ice storms, not boys, who bend down the birch trees. The next few lines are a beautiful description of birch trees, their branches frozen and encrusted with ice in the morning after an ice storm. However, their beauty is only short-lived; soon, in line 9, the sun "cracks and crazes their enamel"—the ice, which breaks and falls into the snow. This is the first hint of destruction in the poem (other than the birches themselves).
LINE 12-20
Such heaps of broken glass to sweep away
You’d think the inner dome of heaven had fallen.
They are dragged to the withered bracken by the load,
And they seem not to break; though once thy are bowed
So low for long, they never right themselves:
You may see their trunks arching in the woods
Years afterwards, trailing their leaves on the ground
Like girls on hands and knees that throw their hair
Before them over their heads to dry in the sun.
But as I was going to say when Truth broke in
ANALYSIS :
In line 13 when he raises the symbolic level of the poem with the sentence: "You'd think the inner dome of heaven had fallen." This line not only anticipates the last lines of the poem, but it also signals the beginning of a retreat from reality.
Lines 21-27
With all her matter-of-fact about the ice-storm
I should prefer to have some boy bend them
As he went out and in to fetch the cows-
Some boy too far from town to learn baseball,
Whose only play was what he found himself,
Summer or winter, and could play alone.
ANALYSIS:
Frost dismisses the ice storm as a cause of the birches' condition in favor of his original explanation that a boy had bent them—despite the fact that he knows that a boy didn't do it.
Lines 28-32
One by one he subdued his father’s trees
By riding them down and over and over again
Until he took the stiffness out of them,
And not one but hung limp, not one was left
For him to conquer. He learned all there was
To learn about launching out too soon
ANALYSIS:
•The speaker imagines the boy going out into his father's land.
•The boy "rides" the birch trees down, meaning that the boy climbs to the top of them until his weight bends the trees down to the ground.
•One way to interpret line 32 is to see it as an example of man conquering nature.
Lines 32- 35
He learned all there was
To learn about launching out too soon
And so not carrying the tree away
Clear to the ground.
ANALYSIS:
•The boy starts to get better about swinging the trees over time.
•If he did jump out too soon, the tree would be damaged.
So, Monica, actually the title of this poem conveys the meaning that we can not stop for death, there is still a life after the death which is eternal one. Telling about the title, I think we better relate it with the lines and the whole meaning of the poem. That is right that the speaker does not have the power over the death as in the second stanza, line 1 "we slowly drove-he knew no haste". This line implies that the one who has the power is death while the speaker enjoys the every moment together with death, that is why the speaker puts the word " we".
Moreover, the whole meaning of this poem actually wants to tell the joy being with death, for me, if the speaker is afraid of death she would not tell about the day when she firstly met death, talking about her afterlife such as: the loneliness in the graveyard and so on. It is the same with us, if we are happy being together with someone, we love to tell the very day when we meet him/her. Besides, in the second line of the last stanza, she said that "since 'tis century, yet it feels shorter than a day", if we are afraid of something or in the bad moment, we feel it happens so long, otherwise when we are happy or in the joyful moment we feel that it happens shortly. The same thing as the speaker, she feels like it just happened while actually it has been hundred year ago. So, that is true the speaker does not have power over the death, yet it does not mean that she is afraid, she is kind of accepting it as the part of life which bring her into the afterlife. Thus "Could not stop here" has two meaning. First, the death could not stop as it does not "stop" in the very minute we died but it lasts until we meet the eternity and second, "I could not stop for death", the speaker could not stop thinking about death since she enjoys or loves it instead of trying to stop it from being happened because she is afraid. Thx :)
I want to ask victor's group; in your explanation in lines 5-11 analysis, in the last line" This is the first hint of destruction in the poem", and also I think this poem often emphasize on how the birches bent down. So do you think that "destruction" of the birches related to death in real life? How do you relate that?thx :D
Based on your presentation, you said if one of the theme in this poem is love. Why do you think so?thank you :)
@ Fenny: If you ask a question, give a context to it. What poem?
Lines 36-38
He always kept his poise
To the top branches, climbing carefully
With the same pains you use to fill a cup
Up to the brim, and even above the brim.
ANALYSIS:
• Now we're getting some details of how the boy becomes better at swinging the trees.
• He keeps "his poise," meaning he stays balanced and calm, sort of hovering up on a tree branch. The speaker compares it to filling a cup to the brim. If you are pouring liquid into a cup, you are so careful not to overflow the cup, so you add a small amount of the liquid at a time. Then you add just a teeny bit more and the liquid forms a dome just above the rim of the cup.
Lines 41-42
So was I once myself a swinger of birches.
And so I dream of going back to be
ANALYSIS:
• The speaker shifts gears from a young boy he imagines swinging on a birch tree, to himself as an older man. He wishes he were out there swinging trees like he was a boy again.
• So all these details could be memories from his boyhood: conquering nature, girls sunning themselves, time alone to think about the natural world.
Lines 43-47
It's when I'm dreary of considerations,
And life is too much like a pathless wood
Where your face burns and tickles with the cobwebs
Broken across it, and one eye is weeping
From a twig's having lashed across it open.
ANALYSIS:
• The speaker wishes he could be a boy again when he's "dreary of considerations."
• "Considerations" could mean thoughtful decision making – an important adult activity.
• That's probably not what he's weary of, however. Instead, "considerations" might refer to the give and take of life. Older people have to give up things or pay for things that kids don't. This might be a way for the speaker to lament the fact that his life is now filled with responsibilities.
Lines 48-49
I'd like to get away from earth awhile
And then come back to it and begin over.
ANALYSIS :
• The speaker transitions to the idea that going back to his childhood is an escape. He wants to take a vacation from life.
• Whether it's a vacation from adult life with responsibilities or a vacation from the world of the living, we don't know.
• The idea to take away is that he wants a new beginning. He still enjoys life's pleasures, and he doesn't want to die. But he doesn't want to be where he is now.
Lines 50-53
May no fate willfully misunderstand me
And half grant what I wish and snatch me away
Not to return. Earth's the right place for love:
I don't know where it's likely to go better.
ANALYSIS:
• The speaker seems to make the following disclaimer: "If any deity, higher power, etc. heard me wish for a break from life, please don't take away my life without ensuring the safe return after an agreed upon time."
• His reason is that he is a lover of life. Anyone who appreciates the sway of trees in the chilling wind loves life.
• For the speaker, love is a worldly idea.
• "It's" (meaning love) worldly to him, because the world is all he knows.
• He recognizes that the world you know is better than an imagined one.
Lines 54-57
I'd like to go by climbing a birch tree,
And climb black branches up a snow-white trunk
Toward heaven, till the tree could bear no more,
But dipped its top and set me down again.
ANALYSIS:
• This appreciation of life doesn't mean he isn't curious. The speaker still wonders about the limits of life and tests out where life ends and heaven begins.
• Line 54 has a funny wording that needs to be pointed out: "I'd like to go by…" Usually people talk like this about their own death: "I'd like to go in my sleep." So it seems like the speaker is saying that he'd like to go to heaven by climbing a tree.
• However in line 56 he says "Towards heaven," so he doesn't actually want to get to heaven just yet.
Lines 58-59
That would be good both going and coming back.
One could do worse than be a swinger of birches.
ANALYSIS:
• He likes the idea of a vacation from the troubles of life, as long as it is only vacation and not a permanent situation.
• The glimpse at the world from a new perspective would be rejuvenating.
• He concludes, like he did in lines 52 and 53, that life's pleasures (like birch swinging) are enough to make life worth living.
The Meaning Of 'Birches' :
The regenerative cycle of nature and love is reflected in Robert Frost's nature poem "Birches."
He says “So low for long, they never right themselves”. I think that he means that once you are down for so long there seems like there is no way out. You feel beaten and can’t lift yourself up, you can never right yourself.
He doesn’t want to believe that the storm hurt the trees, much like us. We never want to admit to ourselves that something that we love would try to hurt us. We always make up excuses to ourselves to make it seem like it is something that it’s not. It always hurts us more to know the truth. At the end he says that one could do worse than be a swinger of birches. So I guess he is saying that no matter how bad things seem to be they can always be worse. People will always have the capability to hurt us, but it is up to us as our own person, whether we let them destroy us or not. We are not like birch trees, we can stand up for ourselves against the biggest storm.
I want to ask to Victor’s group, why did Robert Frost choose the word "Birches" as the title? In addition, why did Frost who is an American poet but his work (and also in this poem) frequently employee settings from rural life in New England? Thank you =)
sorry, I forget to mention, Sir.^^ I wanted to ask Victor's group. Based on your presentation, you said if one of the theme in this poem is love. Why do you think so?because I think Robert Frost also portrayed the images of a child growing to adulthood through the symbolism of aging birch trees and also about life because the man also tried to escape the reality.thank you :)
I will try to answer JESSICA's question:
-> Originally, this poem was called “Swinging Birches,” a title that perhaps provides a more accurate depiction of the subject. In writing this poem, Frost was inspired by his childhood experience with swinging on birches, which was a popular game for children in rural areas of New England during the time.
-> Frost uses New England as a recurring setting throughout his work. Although he spent his early life in California, Frost moved to the East Coast in his early teens and spent the majority of his adult life in Massachusetts and New Hampshire.I think almost of Frost's poems, solitary travelers appear frequently in Frost’s poems, and their attitudes toward their journeys and their surroundings highlight poetic and historical themes, including the figure of the wanderer and the changing social landscape of New England in the twentieth century. As in romanticism, a literary movement active in England from roughly 1750 to 1830, Frost’s poetry demonstrates great respect for the social outcast, or wanderer, who exists on the fringes of a community.
I will try to answer FENNY's question:
The poem pivots in line 24 as the poet imagines that, yes, the birches are bent from a boy swinging on them. The rhythm of the poem speeds up as Frost provides images of youth swinging on birches. Frost uses alliteration in line 42 to change the direction and mood of the poem once again as he reflects on what it would be like to be young again. The only way to do this, he claims, is through love. It is through love that even those who are bent can enjoy a renewal of their spirit, and can "climb black branches up a snow white trunk / Toward heaven, till the tree could bear no more" (56-57). He emphasizes the perfect rejuvenating power of love, represented by the birches, via meiosis in the last line: "Once could do worse than be a swinger of birches"
I will to try answer EIRENE's question:
Yes of course, the "destruction" in this case, it can be related to death in real life..Why? there are two perception: 1. because "bent down" explores the realities of aging, if u are not young again, of course, your weight is so heavy, so it caused destruction to the branch of Briches tree. That's why, Frost said that the destruction is caused by the nature
There are two perception:
1. because "bent down" explores the realities of aging, if u are not young again, of course, you will be hunchbacked. (If you see the destruction of the birches as a human's cycle of life)
2. because "bent down" explores the realities of weight gained in human life. The weight of human itself caused the 'bent down'. That's why, Frost said that the destruction is caused by the nature
I want to ask to Victor's group:
- Why the speaker wants to be a young boy again?
- Is there any regrets when he is a boy??
Perhaps my answer can clarify the previous one (answering EIRENE's question):
The birch trees could be representative of human lives. When we are young, we are tall, strong, and unbent, but as the years and storms go by, we become bent and tired by experience. Once we are bent, like the birch trees, we can't go back to where we used to be. We must bear the knowledge and experience gained in our lives- there's no turning back.
What is Life? by John Clare
And what is Life? An hour-glass on the run, A mist retreating from the morning sun, A busy, bustling, still-repeated dream. Its length? A minute's pause, a moment's thought. And Happiness? A bubble on the stream, That in the act of seizing shrinks to nought.
And what is Hope? The puffing gale of morn, That of its charms divests the dewy lawn,
And robs each flow'ret of its gem—and dies;
A cobweb, hiding disappointment's thorn,
Which stings more keenly through the thin disguise.
And what is Death? Is still the cause unfound?
That dark mysterious name of horrid sound?
A long and lingering sleep the weary crave.
And Peace? Where can its happiness abound? Nowhere at all, save heaven and the grave.
Then what is Life? When stripped of its disguise,
A thing to be desired it cannot be; Since everything that meets our foolish eyes
Gives proof sufficient of its vanity.
'Tis but a trial all must undergo, To teach unthankful mortals how to prize
That happiness vain man's denied to know, Until he's called to claim it in the skies.
What is Life?
By John Clare
CHOICES
By: Nikki Giovanni
If I can't do
what I want to do
then my job is to not
do what I don't want
to do
It's not the same thing
but it's the best I can
do
If I can't have
what I want... then
my job is to want
what I've got
and be satisfied
that at least there
is something more to want
Since I can't go
where I need
to go... then I must... go
where the signs point
through always understanding
parallel movement
isn't lateral
when I can't express
what I really feel
I practice feeling
what I can express
and none of it is equal
I know
but that's why mankind
alone among the animals
learns to cry
Lines 36-38:
I don't think that the comparison in these lines is exact. I mean, climbing the tree can't be compared to filling a cup. Yes, 2 of them need prudential but 1 thing can't be same. It is pleasure. For the boy, although he need to be careful but there s pleasure for the boy (that's why the author dream back of going to be --> Lines 42. It is because there was pleasure). However, I don't think there is a pleasure although there is prudential in filling a cup.
Lines 48-49:
The analysis is overall good but I think the "world of the living" is the "adult life with the responsibilities" itself if we see from the context which is the author is adult.
Sorry, I forget giving the context to my comment. The context of my comment is the "Birches".
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this is great!
Marc Breed said...
Voodoo Stew
People are moving ever faster,
More spin scorches my eyes.
My value is in a state
Of constant flux,
Measured by the fleeting
Glances of women.
True solace remains
Deeply veiled.
I opt of Art,
A hearty cauldron of
Voodoo Stew.
Marc Breed
America’s Fetish Photographer
November 23, 2013 at 8:15 AM
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