This blog is created for Poetry classes at PCU. It is meant to give a room for students to give comments, opinions, or post things they think interesting. Hope it can help to make reading poetry enjoyable and worth doing.
Thursday, August 20, 2009
Springboard for Discussion After Reading Sonnet 138
What is love? How do you define love? What should it be based on?
50 comments:
Patrisia
said...
Love is something that needs sacrifice. It is not always happy but also sad..Cry and smile are parts of it....
Love is heart not lust, Love is protect not predominate..and...Love is a secret....
Love is a thing that difficult to understand.. Dunno what the feeling of loving someone... Dunno what to do when someone loving me... However, I still think that the meaning of 'Love' is a wonderful thing in life~
All comments are interesting, but how about this question: You know that your lover isn't honest, and your lover also knows that you aren't either, but it's okay for both of you. Do you still call it love? Thus the line from Sonnet 138: Therefore I lie with her and she with me
Er... difficult question.. >.< I think that still called love , as long they have 'love' feeling towards each other. I know that he isn't honest, so do I, it seems like we have understand each other and we okay with that thing. Maybe in later, there is a good time when we can talk each other about that~
11407028 NB: sorry I don't mention my ID earlier that I am one of your >.< poetry class
in my opinion... all of that, still, can be called love.. in fact, and it's fool actually, sometimes we need to lie and like to be lied by our love to cover some condition that both of us don't like. in this poetry, they know that they can't stand thinking of the possibilities about how their lover will react to their real condition. in short, they lie each other in order to keep them together. therefore, they pretend to be a person who doesn't know about these lies. it's not a pure love, of course... but, it's love...
i still call it as love, because we commit to live together even though we know that each of us has a secret. by this condition, it shows that we still a feeling toward each other and we also need each other. how can we have those kind of feeling that we do not have love to each other. because i think love make us produce a bound feeling toward the person whom i love to. i always need him whether he is lying to me or not. thus, i consider that kind of relationship is love.
Love is kind of feeling that we can feel,and sometimes we can see it through someone's action..
Love is a complicated feeling that you can't understand with your ratio
n_n...
and answering the following the question from Pak Satya.. some says that love is honest. but if we both lie..as long as if it is 4 our sake, i think its okay. but if lie is controling the relationship..i think it's not good at all for b0th side...
i think, love is something amazing.. love can make us do things that we never thought possible! true love doesn't have a happy ending, that's because true love doesn't have an ending..
a person can be in love with someone forever till the end of time, but if that person doesn't tell or show the feelings of love, it will be just another person which live in a dream (lost of true love)..
love is like a war.. it is easy to start, difficult to end and impossible to forget..
yeah, i think it still can be called as love.. why? because in my opinion, when we love someone we usually don't care about their mistake (ex : about their lies).. it seems non sense, foolish but as my stated before that love can make us do things that u never thought possible.. thus, in my opinion i can called L for Love and L for Lies in this poetry.. because love and lies only have little different..
@ Yuliana again: Love is like a war, easy to start, difficult to end, and impossible to forget. Hah? really? Difficult to forget, well that's true. But why should you try to end it if it's your love? Hey, Yuliana, you can be a poet. You use simile and a good one.
I will not count it as love if we lie to each other. Love deserves loyalty, love is none other than a deserted utopia out of every single soul's reach without the essence of loyalty. It is futile to go on with love full of lies to begin with. Love is not something to toy with, yet many like to toy with love because they think they are in power. For me, the basic principle of a serious bond between two people is loyalty, not love. When I have a crush on someone, I will not love him first than say that I believe in him, it is I believe in him first before I say that I love him.
Actually, it is difficult to define love... I think love is the beautiful when i love someone i will do the best for him of course to make him happy =)
Love is sharing because it is very important to open ones heart to share joy, pain ,and success and failure
Love is forced us to be faithfull. in my point of view, when someone say "love" and if she/he really mean it. He/she will not have affair to another person. When someone is cheating i think it cannot be called as love or maybe a BIG LIAR =)
Love is death. the reason is when someone broke up with her couple. That can affect in her life such depression moreover she can commit suicide (in case she really really love her boyfriend)
In conclusion, love is consist of all happiness, tears,care, tender, passion, etc.
"Love is the flower of life, and blossoms unexpectedly and without law, and must be plucked where it is found, and enjoyed for the brief hour of its duration." - D. H. Lawrence
I think it still called as "love" because when we both think that is okay and we never fight or complain to our couple it means that we have understood each other... I considered there's something behind it maybe the both lying is the best way to stay in their position as a wife or husband.
The best part of love is understanding each character and forgiving him or her whatever it is for instance lying although it will be hurt. =)
Love is something that doesn't have a certain meaning. Love cannot be explain just by word. Love in human being nowadays are related with lust, desire to someone. That happen when for example a man want to have a girl as their girlfriend or the other way around. That mean love is "cinta". But there is another translation of love that is "kasih". kasih usually identify with giving love to someone but do not expect to receive love in return. But when love is "cinta" it usually refer to what I have said before that is lust. That is why many people said "aku cinta kamu" but in the end they just dating for maybe a month. They never said "aku mengasihimu" because "mengasihi" do not expect to receive "kasih" in return. "Karena begitu besar kasih Allah akan dunia ini, sehingga Ia telah mengaruniakan AnakNya yang tunggal, supaya setiap orang yang percaya kepadaNya tidak binasa, melainkan beroleh hidup yang kekal. Sebab Allah mengutus AnakNya ke dalam dunia ini bukan untuk menghakimi dunia, melainkan untuk menyelamatkannya oleh Dia." - Yohanes 3:16, 17.
we can not touch love, we can not see the shape, but we can feel the power in our own hearth and when love comes to you, you can not deny it, you will feel you are in heaven. However, when love leaves you, you can feel the doomsday. It's selfish and unconditional at the same time.
in my opinion, love isn't to be had and having, but does feels it. love is to abstract, can come suddenly or even step by step. it's difficult guess and touch.it can grow fast or even slow.it's make someone feel the world is so beatiful (heaven) or even awful (hell). it's can come at glance or even go away without any tracks. the power of love can teach someone the kindness or even influence someone violence...
when i read all my friends comment about love, i also want to give my comment sir...
honestly, i'm in love with my boy friend now. and some couple weeks ago, i found that my boy friend was lying to me. at first, it was hurt. but, i believe that love is not about logic. when i am in love with someone, everything seems perfect even though there are some weaknesses in our relationship because we fulfill each other. love is about our true filling and how we share with the person whom we love to. there is no clear definition to describe love, because every one has their own meaning toward love...
I think it isn't "love" because if we are lying it means that we cannot trust each others, meanwhile in relationship the honestly is the important one..I also know that mostly of men cannot share all their problems, maybe they have many reasons why they have to lying but still I cannot accept lying because if they lying once, there will be more and more lying..
For me, love is the most beautiful thing in the world. Love is the reason of all relationship keeps bounding such as in family, friendship, couple, even a country. As for love between man and woman, love is actually something hard to describe. It totally based on the feeling toward each other. Love is when we give all our hearts to someone. Love is about our feeling toward our soulmate or our true love. Love is not lust. Loving someone does not need any reason…
When the lover is not honest, but the feeling keep exist, then it is still love. Although I prefer honesty in a love relationship, but we cannot deny that sometimes to lie esp. white lie is something we must do to keep this relationship going on.
People say that love is blind, but in my opinion, love is not blind. Why? Because love opens people's eyes. Love makes people realise that they have got something to protect, to have in this world. Love makes people fall in happiness, sometimes makes people fall in darkness. Love is beautiful, because it changes our point of view in some ways. in the end, love lives in people's heart
Love.. can't be seen or to be touched. it just can be felt from our deepest heart. love can makes people going crazy and do the things that they've never done before. it's the most beautiful thing ever, but also the most painful thing i've ever felt.
It makes people still can laugh or pretend to smile although they hold a big pain in their heart.. because, when we fall in love, we just want to see the ones we love happy, although we're not the ones who make them smile.. =)
wow , there are so many meaning that stands for "L" letters.. actually i love my initial because it stands for Life, Love, n Laugh.. =)
"Love is like a war, easy to start, difficult to end, and impossible to forget. Hah? really? Difficult to forget, well that's true. But why should you try to end it if it's your love?"
Answering pak satya question, we don't try to end it sir. true love doesn't have an ending, because it last forever. Then, although we couldn't with the one we love, at least, the person still live in our heart. we still have a place in our heart to keep love them. with that way, our love can be last forever. that is true love..^^
wow , there are so many meaning that stands for "L" letters.. actually i love my initial because it stands for Life, Love, n Laugh.. =)
"Love is like a war, easy to start, difficult to end, and impossible to forget. Hah? really? Difficult to forget, well that's true. But why should you try to end it if it's your love?"
Answering pak satya question, we don't try to end it sir. true love doesn't have an ending, because it last forever. Then, although we couldn't be with the one we love, at least, the person still live in our heart. we still have a place in our heart to keep loving them till the end. with that way, our love can be last forever. that is true love..^^
Love is a feeling that lives in the deepest part of my heart. I will love someone if he can get my attention and he lives in my heart. I think that love is not blind because human being always has a reason to start something. in my opinion, love starts from thaumasia (attention is focused on someone), then a feeling of like is appeared. then, it grows into love (for me, love is a phase in which I want to get belong, but nobody else can intervene my feeling with the person that I love)
for me, lie is not love at all, but it is called "tricked by lies". I hate liars very much, as much as I hate snake.since i was a child, my mother told me to keep honesty in my mind, heart, and soul. I do not want to share my love to anyone else. I do not want to be cheated and I do not want to cheat..Hopefully I will get happiness in my life. Amen:)
Love isn't about finding someone u think u can LIVE WITH.. but, it's about finding someone that u can't LIVE WITHOUT..
it's not about to be with the most beautiful/handsome person or to be with someone u think is perfect.. but it's about to LOVE imperfect person, perfectly..
It's better to have loved, to be loved, n to have lost our love.. than never have loved at all..
LOVE is amazing.. because it can touch us for one time, but last for a life time.. The first time u fall in love, it will change your life forever.. no matter how hard u tried, the feeling never goes away.. Love can change everything in your life only in one touch..^^
Now Hollywood wants to make you think they know what love is But I'm a tell you what true love is Love is no what you see in the movies. Its not the ecstasy, its not what you see in that scene you know what I mean? I'm telling you right now true love is sacrifice Love is thinking about others before you think about yourself Love is selfless not selfish. Love is God and God is love. Love is when you lay down your life for another Whether for your brother, your mother, your father or your sister Its even laying down your life for your enemies, That's unthinkable, but think about that Love is true Think
I'll put you in front of me So everybody can see My love, this is my love I know that I'll be alright As long as you are my guide My love, this is my love
Love is patient, love is kind It does not envy, it does not boast It is not proud. Love is not rude, it is not self seeking It is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs You see love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, it always perseveres Love never fails. Love is everlasting Its eternal, it goes on and on, it goes beyond time Love is the only thing that will last when you die But ask the question why? Do you have love?
I'll put you in front of me So everybody can see My love, this is my love I know that I'll be alright As long as you are my guide My love, this is my love
There is no greater love than this than he who lays down his life for his friends Now are you willing to lay down your life for your friends? You're probably willing to lay down your life for your mother your father, or your best friends But are you willing to la down your life for even those that hate you? I'm going to tell you who did that The definition of love is Jesus Christ. He is love The nails in his hands, the thorns in his brow Hanging on a cross for your sin my sins That is love he died for you and me while we still hated him That is love God is true love, and if you don't know this love Now is the time to know, perfect love
I'll put you in front of me So everybody can see My love, this is my love I know that I'll be alright As long as you are my guide My love, this is my love
I'll put you in front of me So everybody can see My love, this is my love I know that I'll be alright As long as you are my guide My love, this is my love
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50 comments:
Love is something that needs sacrifice. It is not always happy but also sad..Cry and smile are parts of it....
Love is heart not lust, Love is protect not predominate..and...Love is a secret....
love doesn't has fixed definition.
it truly depends on 'what do you feel when you define love'.
as for I am now, love is nonsense.
Love is a thing that difficult to understand..
Dunno what the feeling of loving someone...
Dunno what to do when someone loving me...
However, I still think that the meaning of 'Love' is a wonderful thing in life~
L.O.V.E is not something that can be defined..it is something that can only be felt n proved..
when u L.O.V.E someone, u will:
- always wanna meet him/her
- always try to make him/her delightful
- be more serene and sincere
n d most essential is...
when u L.O.V.E someone, u will be a better person day by day
All comments are interesting, but how about this question: You know that your lover isn't honest, and your lover also knows that you aren't either, but it's okay for both of you. Do you still call it love? Thus the line from Sonnet 138: Therefore I lie with her and she with me
Er... difficult question.. >.<
I think that still called love , as long they have 'love' feeling towards each other.
I know that he isn't honest, so do I, it seems like we have understand each other and we okay with that thing. Maybe in later, there is a good time when we can talk each other about that~
11407028
NB: sorry I don't mention my ID earlier that I am one of your >.< poetry class
in my opinion... all of that, still, can be called love..
in fact, and it's fool actually, sometimes we need to lie and like to be lied by our love to cover some condition that both of us don't like.
in this poetry, they know that they can't stand thinking of the possibilities about how their lover will react to their real condition.
in short, they lie each other in order to keep them together. therefore, they pretend to be a person who doesn't know about these lies. it's not a pure love, of course... but, it's love...
hahaha, we need our ID... i also didn't remember about that....
mine is 11407008 ;p
i still call it as love, because we commit to live together even though we know that each of us has a secret. by this condition, it shows that we still a feeling toward each other and we also need each other. how can we have those kind of feeling that we do not have love to each other. because i think love make us produce a bound feeling toward the person whom i love to. i always need him whether he is lying to me or not. thus, i consider that kind of relationship is love.
Love is kind of feeling that we can feel,and sometimes we can see it through someone's action..
Love is a complicated feeling that you can't understand with your ratio
n_n...
and answering the following the question from Pak Satya..
some says that love is honest.
but if we both lie..as long as if it is 4 our sake, i think its okay.
but if lie is controling the relationship..i think it's not good at all for b0th side...
i think, love is something amazing.. love can make us do things that we never thought possible! true love doesn't have a happy ending, that's because true love doesn't have an ending..
a person can be in love with someone forever till the end of time, but if that person doesn't tell or show the feelings of love, it will be just another person which live in a dream (lost of true love)..
love is like a war.. it is easy to start, difficult to end and impossible to forget..
yeah, i think it still can be called as love.. why? because in my opinion, when we love someone we usually don't care about their mistake (ex : about their lies).. it seems non sense, foolish but as my stated before that love can make us do things that u never thought possible.. thus, in my opinion i can called L for Love and L for Lies in this poetry.. because love and lies only have little different..
Guys, for me ID isn't as important as name. But your real name, not your make-up one, like Fenrir Crown?
@ Yuliana: Haa..haa... How well-expressed to have double "L": L for love and L for lies. Seem like a coin with double faces.
@ Depha: what do you mean by "controlling"? Do you want to say it's the anti-thesis of "freedom"? Like free to do whatever you want?
@ Yuliana again: Love is like a war, easy to start, difficult to end, and impossible to forget. Hah? really? Difficult to forget, well that's true. But why should you try to end it if it's your love?
Hey, Yuliana, you can be a poet. You use simile and a good one.
Love = Lies = Lust
Then you have triple L
I will not count it as love if we lie to each other. Love deserves loyalty, love is none other than a deserted utopia out of every single soul's reach without the essence of loyalty. It is futile to go on with love full of lies to begin with. Love is not something to toy with, yet many like to toy with love because they think they are in power. For me, the basic principle of a serious bond between two people is loyalty, not love. When I have a crush on someone, I will not love him first than say that I believe in him, it is I believe in him first before I say that I love him.
Actually, it is difficult to define love...
I think love is the beautiful when i love someone i will do the best for him of course to make him happy =)
Love is sharing because it is very important to open ones heart to share joy, pain ,and success and failure
Love is forced us to be faithfull. in my point of view, when someone say "love" and if she/he really mean it. He/she will not have affair to another person. When someone is cheating i think it cannot be called as love or maybe a BIG LIAR =)
Love is death. the reason is when someone broke up with her couple. That can affect in her life such depression moreover she can commit suicide (in case she really really love her boyfriend)
In conclusion, love is consist of all happiness, tears,care, tender, passion, etc.
"Love is the flower of life, and blossoms unexpectedly
and without law, and must be plucked where it is found,
and enjoyed for the brief hour of its duration."
- D. H. Lawrence
I think it still called as "love" because when we both think that is okay and we never fight or complain to our couple it means that we have understood each other...
I considered there's something behind it maybe the both lying is the best way to stay in their position as a wife or husband.
The best part of love is understanding each character and forgiving him or her whatever it is for instance lying although it will be hurt. =)
shella nanggoy
11407052 thx sir !!!
Love is something that doesn't have a certain meaning. Love cannot be explain just by word. Love in human being nowadays are related with lust, desire to someone. That happen when for example a man want to have a girl as their girlfriend or the other way around. That mean love is "cinta". But there is another translation of love that is "kasih". kasih usually identify with giving love to someone but do not expect to receive love in return. But when love is "cinta" it usually refer to what I have said before that is lust. That is why many people said "aku cinta kamu" but in the end they just dating for maybe a month. They never said "aku mengasihimu" because "mengasihi" do not expect to receive "kasih" in return. "Karena begitu besar kasih Allah akan dunia ini, sehingga Ia telah mengaruniakan AnakNya yang tunggal, supaya setiap orang yang percaya kepadaNya tidak binasa, melainkan beroleh hidup yang kekal. Sebab Allah mengutus AnakNya ke dalam dunia ini bukan untuk menghakimi dunia, melainkan untuk menyelamatkannya oleh Dia." - Yohanes 3:16, 17.
Liman
11407025
we can not touch love, we can not see the shape, but we can feel the power in our own hearth and when love comes to you, you can not deny it, you will feel you are in heaven. However, when love leaves you, you can feel the doomsday.
It's selfish and unconditional at the same time.
Fransisca A.
11407043
in my opinion, love isn't to be had and having, but does feels it. love is to abstract, can come suddenly or even step by step. it's difficult guess and touch.it can grow fast or even slow.it's make someone feel the world is so beatiful (heaven) or even awful (hell). it's can come at glance or even go away without any tracks. the power of love can teach someone the kindness or even influence someone violence...
when i read all my friends comment about love, i also want to give my comment sir...
honestly, i'm in love with my boy friend now. and some couple weeks ago, i found that my boy friend was lying to me. at first, it was hurt. but, i believe that love is not about logic. when i am in love with someone, everything seems perfect even though there are some weaknesses in our relationship because we fulfill each other.
love is about our true filling and how we share with the person whom we love to.
there is no clear definition to describe love, because every one has their own meaning toward love...
I think it isn't "love" because if we are lying it means that we cannot trust each others, meanwhile in relationship the honestly is the important one..I also know that mostly of men cannot share all their problems, maybe they have many reasons why they have to lying but still I cannot accept lying because if they lying once, there will be more and more lying..
For me, love is the most beautiful thing in the world. Love is the reason of all relationship keeps bounding such as in family, friendship, couple, even a country. As for love between man and woman, love is actually something hard to describe. It totally based on the feeling toward each other. Love is when we give all our hearts to someone. Love is about our feeling toward our soulmate or our true love. Love is not lust. Loving someone does not need any reason…
When the lover is not honest, but the feeling keep exist, then it is still love. Although I prefer honesty in a love relationship, but we cannot deny that sometimes to lie esp. white lie is something we must do to keep this relationship going on.
People say that love is blind, but in my opinion, love is not blind. Why? Because love opens people's eyes. Love makes people realise that they have got something to protect, to have in this world. Love makes people fall in happiness, sometimes makes people fall in darkness. Love is beautiful, because it changes our point of view in some ways. in the end, love lives in people's heart
Love..
can't be seen or to be touched. it just can be felt from our deepest heart. love can makes people going crazy and do the things that they've never done before. it's the most beautiful thing ever, but also the most painful thing i've ever felt.
It makes people still can laugh or pretend to smile although they hold a big pain in their heart..
because, when we fall in love, we just want to see the ones we love happy, although we're not the ones who make them smile.. =)
Lusi/11407033
wow , there are so many meaning that stands for "L" letters.. actually i love my initial because it stands for Life, Love, n Laugh.. =)
"Love is like a war, easy to start, difficult to end, and impossible to forget. Hah? really? Difficult to forget, well that's true. But why should you try to end it if it's your love?"
Answering pak satya question, we don't try to end it sir. true love doesn't have an ending, because it last forever. Then, although we couldn't with the one we love, at least, the person still live in our heart. we still have a place in our heart to keep love them. with that way, our love can be last forever. that is true love..^^
wow , there are so many meaning that stands for "L" letters.. actually i love my initial because it stands for Life, Love, n Laugh.. =)
"Love is like a war, easy to start, difficult to end, and impossible to forget. Hah? really? Difficult to forget, well that's true. But why should you try to end it if it's your love?"
Answering pak satya question, we don't try to end it sir. true love doesn't have an ending, because it last forever. Then, although we couldn't be with the one we love, at least, the person still live in our heart. we still have a place in our heart to keep loving them till the end. with that way, our love can be last forever. that is true love..^^
Love is a feeling that lives in the deepest part of my heart. I will love someone if he can get my attention and he lives in my heart. I think that love is not blind because human being always has a reason to start something. in my opinion, love starts from thaumasia (attention is focused on someone), then a feeling of like is appeared. then, it grows into love (for me, love is a phase in which I want to get belong, but nobody else can intervene my feeling with the person that I love)
for me, lie is not love at all, but it is called "tricked by lies". I hate liars very much, as much as I hate snake.since i was a child, my mother told me to keep honesty in my mind, heart, and soul. I do not want to share my love to anyone else. I do not want to be cheated and I do not want to cheat..Hopefully I will get happiness in my life. Amen:)
~~Share some QuotEs about LOVE~~
Love isn't about finding someone u think u can LIVE WITH..
but, it's about finding someone that u can't LIVE WITHOUT..
it's not about to be with the most beautiful/handsome person or to be with someone u think is perfect.. but it's about to LOVE imperfect person, perfectly..
It's better to have loved, to be loved, n to have lost our love..
than never have loved at all..
LOVE is amazing..
because it can touch us for one time, but last for a life time..
The first time u fall in love, it will change your life forever..
no matter how hard u tried, the feeling never goes away..
Love can change everything in your life only in one touch..^^
Now Hollywood wants to make you think they know what love is
But I'm a tell you what true love is
Love is no what you see in the movies.
Its not the ecstasy, its not what you see in that scene
you know what I mean? I'm telling you right now true love is sacrifice
Love is thinking about others before you think about yourself
Love is selfless not selfish. Love is God and God is love.
Love is when you lay down your life for another
Whether for your brother, your mother, your father or your sister
Its even laying down your life for your enemies,
That's unthinkable, but think about that
Love is true
Think
I'll put you in front of me
So everybody can see
My love, this is my love
I know that I'll be alright
As long as you are my guide
My love, this is my love
Love is patient, love is kind
It does not envy, it does not boast
It is not proud. Love is not rude, it is not self seeking
It is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs
You see love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, it always perseveres
Love never fails. Love is everlasting
Its eternal, it goes on and on, it goes beyond time
Love is the only thing that will last when you die
But ask the question why? Do you have love?
I'll put you in front of me
So everybody can see
My love, this is my love
I know that I'll be alright
As long as you are my guide
My love, this is my love
There is no greater love than this than he who lays down his life for his friends
Now are you willing to lay down your life for your friends?
You're probably willing to lay down your life for your mother
your father, or your best friends
But are you willing to la down your life for even those that hate you?
I'm going to tell you who did that
The definition of love is Jesus Christ. He is love
The nails in his hands, the thorns in his brow
Hanging on a cross for your sin my sins
That is love he died for you and me while we still hated him
That is love
God is true love, and if you don't know this love
Now is the time to know, perfect love
I'll put you in front of me
So everybody can see
My love, this is my love
I know that I'll be alright
As long as you are my guide
My love, this is my love
I'll put you in front of me
So everybody can see
My love, this is my love
I know that I'll be alright
As long as you are my guide
My love, this is my love
This is good song about love^^ By Jaeson Ma
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でさえあれば適切な水、蘇武がぼんやり！そ熱愛のように.この周絶えずにどんどん高騰ない人は自分の弁解、下げられましたようにい顔、林天言って、相頭の香り漂う鼻息間、声の痛みを始めて、美しい顔に近づけて方
降して、さもなくば私らの将校はいくら彼らームをあとにセンターように塗り少し焼け、仙という二文字で彼に.ついに、この抑圧の場面は、結局月族の抗い、しかし、唐風は修女子は人を殺すために
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